Is "normal record mode" broken?

Here is a jpeg to show you what is happening.. I have left the whole screen in so you can see my audio settings. This is a sine wave loop back test at 90bpm (just in case). This is how my recorded item looks after a normal recording. You can see that if I was to pull this on to the bar it would be perfectly in sync with the original output sine wave but as it is it is not. It works out at about half a sample out, is this the error justin talks about in another thread to do with the real time samplerate converter? Any ideas why? :( Time selection record punch mode puts it on bang on the bar but the sine wave is still out by half a sample. I have a feeling this is different for different tempos will report back.

Fabian, that's part of the problem! ;) If you now move these files they will lock to a snap point and either be in time as mine become or out of time compared to where they should be. Thanks for trying, any ideas what is wrong with my preferences then? :) cos here is the latest image showing time section punch mode with 3 different tempos and me getting inter-sample misalignment :( It must be something simple if no one else gets these problems.. What are your realtime resampling option set to?

even internal realtime bouncedowns from one channels out to another's in are doing it :( They all start a little bit to the left of the play cursor but are not actually in time in till dragged rightwards on to the start of the bar (where the recording was actually started. I have tried so many obvious settings for things like seeking but nothing works. Someone must know! ;) Fabian too has this problem so there must be some connection. What sound card do you have Fabian?

Think I'm closer to the cause.. 

Now not saying it isn't a preference setting causing user error still but here's some more insight so far! :) Here are two screenshots both taken after trying the same thing (with internal routing) at "60 BPM". This means that at 44100hz I can lock to 1 second in which is also locked to the samplerate. when recording from 1 second in the item's start is CORRECT! :) (see first screenshot) When starting from just before one second the items start is NOT correct. (see second screenshot) In most daws when dealing with audio items, the beats and bars is a guide but the overall position of the item is locked to the sample position and not the beats and bar position which has a different relation to the sample postion depending on how far right on the timeline you are due to them being completely un-synchronised (unless your tempo is related to the samplerate i.e. 60bpm, 120bpm and any divisions of 44100) So it seems this problem is related to the problem copied items not phasing with each other differently on each copy due to sub sample rounding issues. any comments? :)

OK, first things first. Does it sync ok just using my loopback test? Second, youve got some item rate adjustment going on in some of those pics which may throw things off. Third, the half sample off is probably due to the subsample rounding. The original sample is probably sitting on the timeline at an intersample position. Fourth, if you have "preserve PDC" enabled on a track, you should expect it to be offset on the timeline. Thats how its implemented.

Hi billoon, Lol, that is weird ;) that the sine ended up at that rate somehow but in the test above with different tempos it is still out and the playback rate is correct for them all and even if the rate for the sine wave is different on the last test I did, the loopback is still out physically at the beginning but will check some little things like maybe my playback rate is slightly wrong compared to my samplerate. Fabian still had the same problem with his start position though. I tried your loop back test and found the lynx seems to need a -1 sample adjustment BUT.. No matter what i do (pdc off/on,driver compensation off/on, driver compensation with -1) when fully zoomed in my "normal record mode" recordings are to the left of the bar a small amount and only cancel with either your loopback test or a sine wave if pulled rightwards so they lock to the bar. What's worse is that if i use time selection recording, it starts on the bar but is still the same amount early in the actual waveform. Adjusting driver compensation moves the audio within the item but item start is still wrong and will still not null. What's even worse is that at different tempos the spacing of how far left the item start is off by varies by up to a few samples suggesting that it is indeed sub sample rounding that is causing it. (being a static sample rate) If you also did do my copy paste test with null files in my other bug report you'll find (if you can reproduce) that each copy of the loop is different and no longer cancels but the items that are now out of time don't cancel at all any more suggesting it's more than a sub sample difference. Again not at 120 bpm since this is in sync with any s So when you zoom fully in do your normal record mode recordings start exactly on the bar? Can you check in a project at a a tempo of say 94 which should show up the problem. Maybe some how pdc is stuck on for me no matter if i turn it off on the track since it makes no difference on or off but thought it only compensated when you had latency inducing fx added or should it also for adjust soundcard latency? If so it seems broken with my set up as i get same results on or off. Any other ideas. :)

Yeah, i can see the recorded item not starting exactly at the edit cursor thing. I guess all thats happening is that the item is starting from the start of the sample, instead of in the middle of the sample. I suppose its rounding the item start position to the nearest previous sample. I really dont think its a big deal. If the item started exactly on the bar, that sample would probably just get dropped. I guarantee you wouldnt hear the difference. ;) The 'preserve PDC' option is only used when monitoring is active, just in case you missed that.

I know it shouldn't be a big deal ;) and I'm trying to ignore it but it seems that depending on tempo and where you do this in the song you get different results and if you try it with a loopback test (internally or externally) and then move the newly recorded item so it locks to the grid the phase shift for complex material (like drums) is audible. :( and seems it can be more than one sample out depending on tempo and how far into the song you are. My main concern to be honest is the other thread here about the fact that each time you copy a group of items it changes their sample relationship and this can be very damaging for multi-miked instruments or layered programmed drum samples and even worse if you have cut them up to sort out timings then grouped them to move them as each time you move it it seems to get even more out of sync. It doesn't even phase like you would expect it too (lack of low frequencies) you can just hear the whole item coming through the null file. I have heard that this is being fixed though and the only reason I went on so long about this one is because I didn't know it was related to my other thread until I started messing around with tempo too which gave it away as being sample rounding related. I will "sleep on it" but if we can get some kind of project level option to lock to samples with rounding always going say leftwards at the cost of only one samplerate in that project I would be very happy! :) semi constructive rant over! now I'm going to get back to what is in whole, the most amazing DAW I have ever used and I have been around a bit! hope this gets a solution though! :)